WASHINGTON (AP) — A contentious three-hour hearing between U.S. senators and Robert Kennedy Jr. devolved into multiple screaming matches on Thursday as the nation’s health secretary fended off accusations about sweeping changes he’s made to vaccines, health care policy and leadership.
The oversight hearing in the Senate Finance Committee was a chance for senators to seek answers from Kennedy on recent at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the to an influential federal advisory committee and changes to COVID-19 vaccine recommendations that will make it .
Both Democrats and Republicans came out swinging. They questioned whether he would keep his earlier promise that he wouldn’t block vaccines for Americans who wanted them. A frustrated Kennedy dismissed those arguments but also sowed doubt on vaccine safety and effectiveness from the prominent perch on Capitol Hill.
Here are some key takeaways from the hearing:
Kennedy tried to discredit ousted CDC director
Kennedy repeatedly disputed the account of fired CDC director Susan Monarez, who was abruptly removed from her post last week after less than a month on the job. Monarez was nominated by President Donald Trump, endorsed for the job by Kennedy and confirmed by a Senate vote in July.
In a Wall Street Journal op-ed published Thursday, Monarez reiterated that she was told to “preapprove” recommendations by Kennedy’s handpicked vaccine advisers, many of whom have records of questioning basic vaccine science.
“I asked her: ‘Are you a trustworthy person?’ and she said ‘No,’” Kennedy stated, explaining his change of opinion on Monarez. “If you had an employee who told you they weren’t trustworthy, would you ask them to resign?”
An attorney representing Monarez called Kennedy’s statements “false” and “patently ridiculous,” in a written statement. Her attorney said she would repeat the allegations in her Wall Street Journal op-ed under oath.
Later in the hearing, Kennedy acknowledged that he’d told Monarez to fire several senior CDC officials. Throughout the hearing, Kennedy accused the agency’s scientists of failing to combat chronic disease and making unsound recommendations during the pandemic.
“The people who at CDC who oversaw that process, who put masks on our children, who closed our schools, are the people who will be leaving,” Kennedy said.
‘You’re just making stuff up:’ A combative Kennedy lobbed attacks
For Kennedy, tough questions from angry senators were an opportunity to fight back.
Throughout the hearing, a resolute Kennedy accused senators of lying, misrepresenting his agency and making little sense. As a result, questioning from Democratic senators repeatedly turned into yelling matches.
“You’re just making stuff up,” Kennedy told Sen. Tina Smith, a Democrat from Minnesota, after she accused him of “blaming school shootings on antidepressants.” The health secretary said on Fox News after the recent Minnesota shooting that antidepressants could potentially contribute to violence, and said his agency was investigating. While critics of antidepressants have long alleged they may increase homicidal behavior, the link is not supported by multiple, large clinical trials of the drugs.
When Democratic Sen. Raphael Warnock of Georgia questioned Kennedy about his disparaging rhetoric about CDC employees before a recent deadly shooting at the agency, Kennedy retorted: “Are you complicit in the assassination attempts on President Trump?”
Kennedy said Sen. Ben Ray Luján of New Mexico was “talking gibberish” when the Democrat asked him about the details of his agency’s autism research.
“Mr. Secretary, let me speak slowly and clearly so that you can understand me through my New Mexico accent,” Luján responded.
Senators challenged claim that ‘anybody can get the booster’ for COVID
Democratic senators pressed Kennedy on recent changes narrowing the approval of annual COVID-19 shots. He repeatedly disputed or denied their accusations.
Last month, the Food and Drug Administration approved updated shots but only for seniors or younger people with underlying health risks. That’s sparked confusion and frustration from many Americans, including parents interested in vaccinating healthy children against the virus.
“Why have you acted behind closed doors to overrule scientists and limit the freedom of parents to choose the COVID vaccine for their children?” Democratic Sen. Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire asked.
“This is crazy talk,” Kennedy responded. Later, he acknowledged that access to vaccines at pharmacies “depends on the state.”
In many states, pharmacists are legally barred from administering vaccines outside the uses endorsed by the CDC's advisory panel, prompting CVS and other pharmacy chains to turn away people seeking shots in certain states.
“You promised that you would not take away vaccines from anyone who wanted them,” said Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts.
“I’m not taking them away from people,” Kennedy said, noting that healthy Americans who want a shot should still be able to get one if a doctor prescribes one. Typically, Americans do not need to see a doctor for annual vaccine updates.
Until this year, the FDA and CDC had recommended yearly COVID vaccinations for everyone ages 6 months and up.
COVID statistics remain a flashpoint
Kennedy could not be pinned down on basic facts and statistics, particularly when it came to vaccines and COVID-19.
In an exchange with Sen. Mark Warner, Kennedy claimed nobody knows how many Americans have died from COVID-19 because of a lack of government data.
Both the CDC and the World Health Organization have concluded that approximately 1.2 million Americans have died from the virus.
“The secretary of Health and Human Services doesn’t know how many Americans died from COVID,” said Warner, a Virginia Democrat. “How can you be that ignorant?”
Republicans also pressed Kennedy on his assessment of Operation Warp Speed, the Trump-led initiative that rapidly developed COVID vaccines in the first year of the pandemic. Trump has long claimed success for the effort, while acknowledging unsubstantiated theories that mass vaccinations may have caused more harm than good.
Kennedy has said it’s unclear how many lives were saved by the vaccines because of imperfect data collected by the CDC and vaccine makers.
Nevertheless, when questioned by Republican Sen. Bill Cassidy of Louisiana — a physician — about Operation Warp Speed, Kennedy agreed that Trump “absolutely” deserved a Nobel Prize.
Vaccine concerns were bipartisan
Senate Republicans were more aggressive with Kennedy than they have been with most of Trump’s top officials, with several asking pointed questions about his efforts to limit access to vaccines.
Wyoming Sen. John Barrasso, also a doctor and the No. 2 Senate Republican, said he had grown “deeply concerned” that some vaccines could be in jeopardy after Kennedy had cut research funding and fired the CDC director.
“Americans don’t know who to rely on,” Barrasso said.
North Carolina Sen. Thom Tillis read off a list of questions for Kennedy that he said he wanted answered after the hearing, including where the health secretary stands on the COVID-19 vaccine.
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AP writer Mary Clare Jalonick contributed to this story. Swenson reported from New York.
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